Where Does the Negativity Come From?

[DoctorKaizeld]

Im with you on the fallout fan base but that's the same with all fan bases. How many CoD players are willing to admit the game is shallow and really the only difference between games is different maps and different graphics.

 

I like FONV but FO3 has my favorite game world... After removing the green coating that is.

 

Both games have issues but they were the first Beth and Obsid fallout games using the Gamebryo engine and obsidian was forced to rush the development of NV so i gave them a pass for the mistakes and issues they had. Especially because a lot of them could be fixed with mods. I enjoy them and more then willing to discuss their flaws.

 

I may talk about the problems with the games but i enjoy them all including FO4 but i am getting sick of Bethesdas laziness. Also the mod theft matter makes me mad.

[TeamBacon]

My perspective:

 

1) FO4 isn't much of a Fallout game. It's super fun and I like playing it and am writing mods for it, but if it weren't for the existence of the traditional factions, etc I'd think Beth had branched into something new because it's obviously a Beth game, it's just not obvioulsy a Fallout game (or built in the tradition of the TES titles).

 

If Fallout 4 was in fact a 'true' Fallout game like the Interplay purists want, I predict that it would have been a total flop to the general public.

 

I don't think a cult following is enough to pay for the expense of developing AAA titles on this scale.

 

But I am not an expert on finance in the game industry, so take that for what it is. (I've only bankrupted one company so far...)

[Arthmoor]

I honestly don't understand why many people are so prejudice about Bethesda's treatment to Fallout, specifically the No Mutants Allowed community.

Understanding series purists is impossible. Best policy is to just ignore them.

 

You'll get a lot of people telling you "FO4 isn't Fallout" but then they won't be able to articulate why that's supposed to be the case. Yet, when you play, it very plainly is because it has all of the expected elements of a Fallout game in it, along with new stuff that was added.

 

About the only thing most everyone can agree on is that the dialogue tree system is garbage and limits the potential for not only the game itself but for modding as well. I don't even have an issue with a voiced player considering every other good RPG in recent memory has that and it doesn't destroy the game, but the way the dialogue selection works is garbage, and was garbage when Bioware started using it years ago. Not everything should get emulated :tongue:

[Rethrain]

I had forgotten all about No Mutants allowed until this thread popped up. Frankly, the last time I was there was just a couple of days after Fallout 3 launched. Take my advice and forget about them, like I did.

 

As for why the negativity here, it's for many varied reasons, and not simply purism. And not everyone who liked the older games (and others) will start comparing them now. Well, at least not me.

[TeamBacon]

 

About the only thing most everyone can agree on is that the dialogue tree system is garbage and limits the potential for not only the game itself but for modding as well. I don't even have an issue with a voiced player considering every other good RPG in recent memory has that and it doesn't destroy the game, but the way the dialogue selection works is garbage, and was garbage when Bioware started using it years ago. Not everything should get emulated :tongue:

 

 

I am one of those that does not agree. But to each his own I guess.

 

 

 

 

If you are curious as to know why, I personally don't like having the entire dialogue choice for every option sitting there in front of my face for me to have to read.

 

I think it breaks my connection with my character when I am playing a goody two shoes character and I have to read out an entire sarcastic response, and entire evil response threatening to murder someone, and whatever other responses the game may have. It takes me out of the moment.

 

I would rather keep that dialogue hidden, that way when I go back through the game playing as... I don't know... Deadpool... I can have totally new dialogue my second time around, as opposed to having already read it my first playthrough like I would in a game like Fallout New Vegas.

 

I also think that the dialogue wheel which isn't even a wheel makes the pace of the game much smoother. It doesn't feel so choppy like you are hopping from gameplay to menu crawling to gameplay again. I think the way Bioware does it and the way Fallout 4 does it makes things more smooth.

 

 

 

 

But hey, that's just my personal opinion. Not trying to convince you or anything, just saying that I can articulate a logical case as to why I like it and am not just blindly bashing the older games in the series.

 

I very much enjoyed all the Fallout games, even though I had to mod cheat weapons into Tactics because I was too impatient to play the long drawn out battles... And I do think that Fallout 4 has a lot of flaws and Bethesda didn't nearly reach the potential the could have with the new dialogue system.

 

But I like the direction they are going in and I hope they continue. But if they don't, I'm cool with that as well.

[zc123]

Eh I don't blame them for wanting to try new stuff, You need to if you don't want to stagnate in the game industry.

 

Things I do blame them for

 

1: Bad story line that is pretty much a rehash of stories done before.

 

2: Making the game so limited vs the previous games in terms of ways to build & customize your character (kills much of the replay value)

 

3: The way they have treated the modding community (like seriously, they were offered help numerous times and were like no we can "handle" this then proceed to f*** it up massively)

 

4: That while the weapon system allows for a great deal of customization it also is extremely unrealistic especially when compared to new vagas.

 

5: Using the same old engine with yet another new coat of paint. (Seriously there are much better options now days, many of which are cheap or free and just as if not more friendly to modders.)

 

 

Frankly if the people at Obsidian were willing to join their team I would rejoice because they would bring allot to the table that Bethesda, Sadly I doubt they would given how Bethesda treated them last time around.

Edited July 26, 2016 by zc123

[Arthmoor]

I am one of those that does not agree. But to each his own I guess.

 

If you are curious as to know why, I personally don't like having the entire dialogue choice for every option sitting there in front of my face for me to have to read.

See that's the problem though. For most people, "sarcastic" or "mean" or whatever has little to no meaning. Even if they just gave you a glimpse of how the line would be delivered it would be more than enough. The choice isn't binary between meaningless label and the full dialogue line.

 

I think CDPR struck a good balance with the Witcher series in that you had enough of an idea of how the response would play out based on the words they chose for each one. Something like that would have worked out much better for FO4.

[cossayos]

The main problem is people having their judgement clouded by Nostalgia and it is combined with envy (players always hate big companies because it is in the nature of all living things to hate those that have more) and religious RPG fundamentalism ("It's not a real RPG unless the graphics suck and you can talk the end boss into becoming a vegetarian"). This creates an opinion-cloud on the internet where all these diffuse feelings manifest in:

 

-COD sucks, Bethesda sucks, Obsidian does not suck because they present themselves as poor developers who do it for the love of rpg and not the money. Any indie, no matter how crappy it is and how many years it is stuck in early acces does not suck (again because of the projection of the image of the poor tortured game designer artist).

 

Cat fully supports Bethesda 100%. And all Bethesda games are better than the previous ones and Morrowind is the worst Elder Scrolls game.

 

Opiniated much? Most of all, you seem to have discovered the secret of telepathy, since you know so well what all of us are thinking.

 

I'm fully aware of the shortcomings of Morrowind in this day and age. Yet 14 years ago it was something entirely novel. My gripe is Bethesda not having moved beyond that concept. We are basically still playing Morrowind, with nicer graphics and a few gameplay elements added. On more or less the same engine. And Obsidian are the better story writers. That's not about talkinng the boss into being a vegetarian but about having a forking story that really offers the illusion of different outcomes instead of a few different pieces of dialogue added to come to the exact same conclusion.

 

I still like FO4 for what it offers. I'm not disappointed since I fully expected for it to turn out the way it did. This is a Bethesda game after all, and after 14 years of playing Bethesda games, my expectation of them doing something new and groundbreaking is rather zero.

[DoctorKaizeld]

Let us also point out that the dialog wheel from Mass Effect was also a lot better sometimes having more then 4 options for conversation. The reason it worked for ME is because the game worked more as a controlled movie then a game. Also ME had a fleshed out plot with great characters that were often brought back in the sequels.

 

Does that mean i liked the wheel? Hell no. I hated it there and i hate it more in FO4. The number of times i have chosen a dialog choice because that would be the response my character would make just to get a whiny or agressive tone for a choice that should be neutral is quite high. This pulls me out of the game and makes me feel as though i am playing someone elses character. Knowing what will be said though can tell me what tone the line will actually have.

 

Do i think they should have stuck with the old way? Yes. There werent any issues with it and there are other things that could have used some work. Do i think they could have maybe created the wheel version as an optional feature? Sure why not i get why some like it. There is a good argument above that explains one side of it. Do i think we need more then 2-3 responses (sometimes 4) for dialog? Yes. Does the dialog need to go deeper? Yes. Do we need better character development? Yes, the game started to do this for a few characters but stopped short for all of them. Should the PC be voiceless? No that's fine. The voiced PC should be optional though.

 

Like i said before i dont hate the game. I got about 60-80 hours of entertainment out of the unmodded game so i dont think i wasted my money on it. Im just disapointed by it. I 100% a fallout game in 80 hours. I still havent finshed a single ES game and i haven't finshed FONV either. I only completed FO4 because i ran out of other nonsense to do. This 80 hours includes siding with all the seperate factions and building settlements in all the locations on top of the usual stuff. That is why i am disappointed by it. I got bored by it far to fast.

[cartman1975]

Q: Where Does the Negativity Come From?

 

A: Have a look at the new DLC, and you will get most of the answers.