Big changes for the Nexus Mod Manager and the introduction of Tannin42, our new head of NMM development

[drscott11]

In response to post #43214710.

Bonechip wrote: I am but a lowly NMM user. I do not need anything fancy, but do have one request.....

Please for the love of the Gods, make it so the column widths stay where you put them.

I cannot agree more with this statement. Seriously guys, this is basic UI QoL stuff.

[Rosamund]

Well, good luck to all of you with this endeavor I certainly hope for the best for the developers, the modders and the users. I can't help but admit that my heart dropped into my shoes upon hearing this however. I'd say I'm a medium modder- I can follow directions, I can make a few simple adjustments. I tried MO and had nothing but disasters and reinstalls. I wanted to like it and use it but I just couldn't. I came back to NMM because I had to even though it didn't do everything I wanted it to. So maybe this will be good- maybe it will be just want I was hoping for. Please, PLEASE remember your promise to keep it easily approachable- just like a math genius' definition of "simple math" is not the average guy's definition, your definition of easy to use might not be noob or average user's version. Best of luck!

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #43213925.

axonis wrote: I personally don't use mod organizers so I wouldn't be interested in this news article, but there is a feature I'd like to request that could immensely help mod authors, especially for Skyrim.

Would it be possible to implement a "test this mod alone" function that allows players to test a single mod (loaded with its required files only) for bugs and pack their saved game along with any required config files for bug reports ?

Sometimes users don't understand that mod authors are not modding their load orders but rather Skyrim. Yes, some mods such as the USKP or SkyUI can be taken for granted -- "should" in the case of the USKP, but otherwise it's a shame for an author to be wasting their time finding out issues that are not their own responsibility.

Mod organizers have, indirectly and without any intent, contributed to this issue by offering a simple interface that makes installing any mod a breeze, and I believe it's due to this ease of use that we see those huge mod lists in the last years. Perhaps it's time users become aware of the implications of this, and mod organizers would be the perfect way to tell them.

That's EXACTLY what a Mod Manager does, both NMM and MO have this capability to test a mod alone, or with others etc. Edited October 13, 2016 by HadToRegister

[silencer711]

In response to post #43213960.

darthbdaman wrote: We'll see how this turns out I guess. This makes me very uncomfortable

NMM has never been a particularly stable or powerful mod manager, and has only gotten worse with new features added to ape MO. It is slow, crashes a lot, and just does a worse job than MO at basicallly everything. If MO supported more games, I wouldn't even have NMM installed. If I do have to use an older manager, I use FOMM or OBMM, as they are more functional at this point. I don't mean to harangue anyone, and it is far better than anything I could write, but it simply withers in comparison to the alternatives.

MO, on the other hand, is an amazing piece of software that I couldn't live without anymore, and it will be a shame to see it die. Hopefully this new NMM (NNMM?) will draw far more heavily from MO than old NMM. MO is simply a sleaker, faster, and far more stable piece of software that I actually enjoy using (unlike NMM).

I'll try to remain hopeful, but I have some serious doubts about this decision. It will depend heavily upon the inspiration taken for the final product.

It depends wholesomely on what you make[NMM] it do. For some of us, we install mods in a specific order, from a personally curated list and don't mess with it from that point because our end goal has been achieved.

I have no experience with MO, I'd love to try it but currently I have a stable, organized 122 mod install with NMM 62.1

Credit is due however, to the albeit aging NMM, as it is an ORIGINAL piece of software that sort of came first from where others have built upon it or based their own managers upon its features and abilities.
Not speaking for Tannin42, but if I was going to create a mod manager from scratch I would look to others as a template, write my own code to do the same and just add features from everyone else's mod managers to make mine the ultimate one lol. You gotta start somewhere.

-Keep in mind: If the author of your favorite mod manager is now head of NMM development, you can expect the new NMM to present all the best things about NMM and all the best things from MO... no need to have serious doubts here. :) Edited October 13, 2016 by silencer711

[silencer711]

In response to post #43214710. #43214820 is also a reply to the same post.

Bonechip wrote: I am but a lowly NMM user. I do not need anything fancy, but do have one request.....

Please for the love of the Gods, make it so the column widths stay where you put them.

drscott11 wrote: I cannot agree more with this statement. Seriously guys, this is basic UI QoL stuff.

@Bonechip: Lol, I totally forgot about that, yes please! :D

[vram1974]

Ok I finally read the whole article. Ugh, I'm the worst.

 

This is good news. I have faith. Thanks for the update.

Edited October 13, 2016 by vram1974

[Pholostan]

In response to post #43209560. #43209910, #43210605, #43213505 are all replies on the same post.

Dreadborn wrote: An update is always (well, most of the times) good news for every program we use BUT do we have to uninstall ALL our mods AGAIN?? Can't we avoid this somehow? It's totally a pain and prevent us from updating NMM and benefit from any new feature.
Thx.

Tannin42 wrote: We are of course aware of this problem. On the other hand we don't want old "baggage" to hold us back.
I can't make any promise yet but we will look into importing from existing NMM and MO installations into the new versions and I will do my best to make updates of the new manager more robust.

JimmyRJump wrote: There must be a way to make the new mod manager get along with, for example, NMM profiles or something along that stretch so that existing NMM profiles can be imported?

Dreadborn wrote: Thank you for your answer and gl with your new task! We all here wish you the best! :)

Importing profiles sounds like the job for a separate conversion tool. Does not need to be a core part of the new Mod Manager IMHO. If the new manager has good documentation, pretty much anyone can take a crack at making a conversion tool.

[azraal]

In response to post #43213925. #43215075 is also a reply to the same post.

axonis wrote: I personally don't use mod organizers so I wouldn't be interested in this news article, but there is a feature I'd like to request that could immensely help mod authors, especially for Skyrim.

Would it be possible to implement a "test this mod alone" function that allows players to test a single mod (loaded with its required files only) for bugs and pack their saved game along with any required config files for bug reports ?

Sometimes users don't understand that mod authors are not modding their load orders but rather Skyrim. Yes, some mods such as the USKP or SkyUI can be taken for granted -- "should" in the case of the USKP, but otherwise it's a shame for an author to be wasting their time finding out issues that are not their own responsibility.

Mod organizers have, indirectly and without any intent, contributed to this issue by offering a simple interface that makes installing any mod a breeze, and I believe it's due to this ease of use that we see those huge mod lists in the last years. Perhaps it's time users become aware of the implications of this, and mod organizers would be the perfect way to tell them.

HadToRegister wrote: That's EXACTLY what a Mod Manager does, both NMM and MO have this capability to test a mod alone, or with others etc.

Well you could use profiles in NMM and MO. And for Mo, selecting only one mod will mean only the files of this mod will be installed.

As for the users I think they understand but don't want to bother anyway, they'll turn on to the mod author for advice.
I've gone through the thing contless time: Breaking my game, going through my load order one by one, to find one mod author had modified a script that is seemingly unrelated to the mod that break another mod's dependency that prompt a totally unrelated behavior. Sure this is not the mod author fault, most of the time they know already but they still expect them to give answer.

It's long and boring to do, that's the price to pay with an big load order, I would ignore the game for a few day before sorting my mess... But not everyone wants to bother.
My point is, educating won't help, and people will still bother modders.

On the other hand, as a support technician for a software company, I have seen my share of issues, that the client, even with the best intentions, has no way of knowing that the issue does not come from the product, and it require a real analysis to determine the real cause.
It's a shame, but when you set a product, even for free, you cannot simply ignore your user base because even if it's a conflict there is still a chance you are the one causing the issue.

It's sad but you cannot expect the user to use only your mod...
I'm playing the devil advocate here, because I agree it's a shame.

But a tool can only assist, now you can do what we do, paste some instructions on how to gather data on the issue (a simple step by step no complex explication that would go over the head of someone who isn't willing to learn the inner working)
Most of the time the user themselves will find the source of the problem and if he comes back with simply the mod that was causing the conflict, a quick analysis will prompt a simple response:
It's my fault.
It's no one fault (conflict).
it's their fault.
And it's worth correcting or not.

Keep in mind an incompatibility may lead you to a piece of code, that makes you wonder what you had in mind when you wrote it.

So not all black or white here...

Anyway MO is great because it only installs the mod you selected in a clean directory (except for steam and bethesda mods are they are forcefully set in your directory)

[Deleted15964729User]

In response to post #43210430.

jim_uk wrote: Please can we get a mode for us old stick in the muds who still do everything manually and only want something to enable mods and change the load order? I'm still using 0.52.3.

This works perfectly for that. It doesn't disable mods beyond unchecking the esp though. Of course if it did, it wouldn't be simple anymore :)

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13671/?

[I2edShift]

This is a great move, congrats to Tannin on his new position and good on Dark0ne for having the sack to actually hire the man for his talents. Between a re-vamped NMM and the upcoming sight redesign I'm excited to see what Nexus looks like in another year or two.

 

And Robin (if you're reading this), I've found NMM to be perfectly adequate for even an "Advanced" mod user. The only thing is that NMM requires a bit more thought & organization to how you do things on your end. My only complaint thus far is that NMM has a tendency to hang when installing large files (+2GB). The progress bars that are buried in the bottom of the UI should have been in a more visible place as well. Regardless, I've been modding since Skyrim and have amassed some 150GB's of mods off this site. NMM has had it's hiccups but it's an adequate tool for the vast majority of peoples needs.