Big changes for the Nexus Mod Manager and the introduction of Tannin42, our new head of NMM development

[SknTheLisper]

In response to post #49848652.

sopmac45 wrote:

I am practically new to modding. Matter of fact I've never used MO and I have been using NMM for a couple of months. However, I've read a lot about modding because to be honest, I have started Skyrim SE from scratch like 5 times already because I've screwed up with my mods for lack of understanding. Nevertheless, I would like that this new NMM to be a fully automated program, meaning, that, for those of us that are not that experienced, this new software should do for us what we need : sorting, cleaning and properly load-order our mods. So far, I am using LOOT and SSEdit but to be honest, I've found LOOT to be kind of sloppy.

Recently, I am relying more on what the creator of the mod is saying in his/her description than LOOT and by following their suggestion ( like for example load this mod at the very bottom or so ), is more reliable for me than LOOT.

For the new NMM, I thing that it would be very nice that this program do everything for us but the most important is to have this new tool to properly fix and load-order our mods so we can play smoothly. So far, for example, LOOT is placing Modern Brawl ( bug fixer ) very close to the top in my load order and the creator of this mod, is advising to place it close to the bottom of my load. This is something very confusing for those that are new to modding and that is why I suggest to you guys, to have this new tool, kind of automated and reliable so we can trust 100% that what it does, is the best for our gaming.

Just my 2 cents being a rookie in modding.

Thanks a lot

What you are basically asking for, is what LOOT is already doing. The reason LOOT is "sloppy" is because it's impossible to automate load order.

Firstly, leveled lists(loot found in containers, enemies etc) can only be changed by 1 mod at a time(2 mods changing same leveld list, last mod takes effect), how do you sort that automatically(Most effective would be the ones doing the most changes first)?

Then you have overhauls, like Requiem and Skyre, from an automatic stand point, they both are more-or less the same(overhauls), however Requiem's changes require it to be more or less the last mod to run, where as Skyre should be at the top. How do you automate that(Obviously you can't, unless you make exception lists)?

The only way to make an "automatic" load order that isn't sloppy, is if someone make a list of all mod's and their respective load order(which is quite the undertaking! Especially if it's going to support Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3\nv\4 and Skyrim).

--

Also loot isn't and was never intended to be completely automatic(again it's impossible) but rather a guide line to make it easier to sort your load order(which it is), you still have to(and will always have to) manually go trough it and change when mods load(especially if you have conflicting mods, which you most likely will have if you exceed 50 mods). Edited May 24, 2017 by skn

[petteyg359]

So here it is nine eleven months later and what do we have to show for it? The big giant feature of being able to select multiple mod archives to add add one time in NMM, but no new manager tool. I realize software development takes time. I work in IT. But seriously. Show us something more than a name and a list of potential features.

Edited September 10, 2017 by petteyg359

[mclovenwhy]

Can you guys make it geck friendly

[argentrolf]

In response to post #49848652. #50375837 is also a reply to the same post.

sopmac45 wrote:

I am practically new to modding. Matter of fact I've never used MO and I have been using NMM for a couple of months. However, I've read a lot about modding because to be honest, I have started Skyrim SE from scratch like 5 times already because I've screwed up with my mods for lack of understanding. Nevertheless, I would like that this new NMM to be a fully automated program, meaning, that, for those of us that are not that experienced, this new software should do for us what we need : sorting, cleaning and properly load-order our mods. So far, I am using LOOT and SSEdit but to be honest, I've found LOOT to be kind of sloppy.

Recently, I am relying more on what the creator of the mod is saying in his/her description than LOOT and by following their suggestion ( like for example load this mod at the very bottom or so ), is more reliable for me than LOOT.

For the new NMM, I thing that it would be very nice that this program do everything for us but the most important is to have this new tool to properly fix and load-order our mods so we can play smoothly. So far, for example, LOOT is placing Modern Brawl ( bug fixer ) very close to the top in my load order and the creator of this mod, is advising to place it close to the bottom of my load. This is something very confusing for those that are new to modding and that is why I suggest to you guys, to have this new tool, kind of automated and reliable so we can trust 100% that what it does, is the best for our gaming.

Just my 2 cents being a rookie in modding.

Thanks a lot

skn wrote: What you are basically asking for, is what LOOT is already doing. The reason LOOT is "sloppy" is because it's impossible to automate load order.

Firstly, leveled lists(loot found in containers, enemies etc) can only be changed by 1 mod at a time(2 mods changing same leveld list, last mod takes effect), how do you sort that automatically(Most effective would be the ones doing the most changes first)?

Then you have overhauls, like Requiem and Skyre, from an automatic stand point, they both are more-or less the same(overhauls), however Requiem's changes require it to be more or less the last mod to run, where as Skyre should be at the top. How do you automate that(Obviously you can't, unless you make exception lists)?

The only way to make an "automatic" load order that isn't sloppy, is if someone make a list of all mod's and their respective load order(which is quite the undertaking! Especially if it's going to support Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3\nv\4 and Skyrim).

--

Also loot isn't and was never intended to be completely automatic(again it's impossible) but rather a guide line to make it easier to sort your load order(which it is), you still have to(and will always have to) manually go trough it and change when mods load(especially if you have conflicting mods, which you most likely will have if you exceed 50 mods).

there is a way to automate it entirely, without the overly comprehensive master... within the mod managers programing have it check for, in order of preference;
a)mod relationships (first dependencies, then author specified load order)
b)priority (author defined, at first)
c)community load-order (generated by consensus, more on that in a moment)
d)conflicts

the consensus i mentioned could/should be an automated master list. steps a and b would generate a load order that can still be altered by the user. the user defined order would then be compared to the master and, if a new mod is added it would create a priority rank (if the author didnt already). and if its an existing mod, it would alter the priority by a single step for each mod affected. It would then check for conflicts. no conflicts, no problem. if a conflict occurs, it warns the user which mods are now conflicting, and does not upload the local master. after the manager passes all four steps, it uploads local master and thereby modifies the global master. that global master can now reliably automate load order for everyone (and, in fact, mostly did so for the initial users as well).
i am not a programmer, but if i can make that work in office, im sure it would be simple toto get it working in software language.

[NegativZeroe]

In response to post #48763382. #48763667, #48765077 are all replies on the same post.

StrifeWolfe wrote: Pretty shitty customer service to just discontinue support for something that was never even released in full. You're basically the equivalent to all those game developers on Greenlight and Kickstarter that trick everyone into giving them money, only to quit in the end. "Working on a new mod manager", well maybe you should've finished the first one, rather than moving on like some kind of A.D.D. kid off their meds. I mean seriously, the amount of people you burned by saying "End-of-Line, no longer supporting or helping you, go find somebody else", people want their mods, and people who already have mods want to keep them up-to-date and be able to play their games. I'll just go back to installing my mods the old fashioned way.

Dark0ne wrote: What "customers" are they exactly? We released it as open source and for free. You certainly haven't paid for anything in the 3 years you've been here, downloading over 800 mods for free in the process (and only endorsing 8 of those) so why are you getting your knickers in a twist?

The software still runs and works. I'd understand your ridiculously rude over-reaction if we'd shut down the services, removed the download link and prevented anyone's NMM from working. But we didn't. It still works just as it ever did.

So calm yourself.

Ethreon wrote: Maybe you should issue OP a refund. I'm sure he wants back that boot up the arse.

I laughed so hard at this. XD

Don't hate, appreciate. Edited August 8, 2017 by NegativZeroe

[Khundiann]

 

In response to post #43210330. #43210880 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

ousnius wrote: Refreshing to hear this. Both NMM and MO have good and bad sides, but I've always felt we need a new one that combines both. I don't want to see hooking of Windows API in running executables anymore, though. :tongue:

krisser143 wrote: Why though, it was the main selling point that you don't touch your data folder, and are able to handle conflicts MUCH bette

 

Will the new NMM perhaps be a "reincarnation" of the somewhat abandoned MO2?

 

It has too many bugs and stability issues, and every little change to a program or Windows can break it. You can still do virtual files, but not that way.

 

I have to agree with Krisser143 that the whole virtual file system was the main draw for me too in MO, keep your game folder clean. Enable and disable on the fly without breaking your install, manage wich mod overwrites others by simply dragging and dropping in the modllist. Please don't talk about the VFS feature like it was a bad thing, this was a stroke of brilliance imo!

That said, I have complete confidence in Tannin42 and the other devs at the Nexus that they will do their best to please us all. Lets not forget what Tannin42 achieved on his own, and in his spare time... Combined forces on this new NMM will surprise us all!

 

I think I speak for majority of the people here when I say... "I can't wait!" :D

[Khundiann]

So here it is nine months later and what do we have to show for it? The big giant feature of being able to select multiple mod archives to add add one time in NMM, but no new manager tool. I realize software development takes time. I work in IT. But seriously. Show us something more than a name and a list of potential features.

 

I totally understand that the devs want to make sure they don't FUBAR the release of the new NMM, people their expectations are high for this new NMM. Though I would like to get my hands on it as soon as possible too. We just need to give the devs some time, so they can deliver a relatively bugfree tool.

 

ModOrganizer2 is kinda unstable in some features, but the core functionality is still there. I'm running a 200+ plugin and 300+ mods total skyrim se game atm, I suggest you take a look at it when you want to do some serious modding while we wait for the new NMM.

[mkr1977]

In response to post #48763382. #48763667, #48765077, #52564073 are all replies on the same post.

StrifeWolfe wrote: Pretty shitty customer service to just discontinue support for something that was never even released in full. You're basically the equivalent to all those game developers on Greenlight and Kickstarter that trick everyone into giving them money, only to quit in the end. "Working on a new mod manager", well maybe you should've finished the first one, rather than moving on like some kind of A.D.D. kid off their meds. I mean seriously, the amount of people you burned by saying "End-of-Line, no longer supporting or helping you, go find somebody else", people want their mods, and people who already have mods want to keep them up-to-date and be able to play their games. I'll just go back to installing my mods the old fashioned way.

Dark0ne wrote: What "customers" are they exactly? We released it as open source and for free. You certainly haven't paid for anything in the 3 years you've been here, downloading over 800 mods for free in the process (and only endorsing 8 of those) so why are you getting your knickers in a twist?

The software still runs and works. I'd understand your ridiculously rude over-reaction if we'd shut down the services, removed the download link and prevented anyone's NMM from working. But we didn't. It still works just as it ever did.

So calm yourself.

Ethreon wrote: Maybe you should issue OP a refund. I'm sure he wants back that boot up the arse.

NegativZeroe wrote: I laughed so hard at this. XD

Don't hate, appreciate.

I have to agree with Dark0ne. Customer? I don't think so. You haven't paid any money. And if you aren't the customer, you are the product (one way or another).

Dark0ne, do we have an ETA on the new mod manager? Edited August 19, 2017 by mkr1977

[Sern]

I'm sooo on the fence right now about whether or not to bother with a playthrough on SE with MO2. Half of what I read screams "no, wait for better horizons." The other half, "Just do it. There's no way to tell when the improved stuff is gonna be here." But then I look at the timeline originally submitted as a rough outline. I always prefer to take the max time stated as the more likely outcome. But are we not nearing that max timeline scenario? It would just be nice to know if close (1-2 months) or come back in 2018+. If 2018+, THEN I take the dozens of hours long plunge into the abyss relearning all about modding Skyrim, especially on SE with no SKSE. I mean, really, it's no small time investment. It could take me 2+ evenings after work just to get everything in order to possibly play on day 3. Not the worst thing in the world but would stuck to see that many hours end up wasted. Not to mention there's no telling how stable the end result of the effort will even be.

 

I know before there were considerations needing to be made for things like TES5Edit, LOOT, Wrye Bash (plz no). To anyone who says, "It's not complicated" is either a mod creator / dev or someone who has repeated the setup process many more times than I have.

 

1.) Install Skyrim.

2.) Backup Skyrim install in case you need to revert without downloading entire installation again (since validation ignores non vanilla files).

3.) Install MO/equivalent.

4.) Download a bazillion miscellaneous attachments to MO.

5.) Look up half a dozen Youtube videos on how to run them all.

6.) Look at the clock and try not to facepalm.

7.) Run TES5Edit to clean a game that Bethesda could have cleaned with minimal effort despite the obvious modding community interest.

8.) Finally start downloading and installing mods.

9.) Run LOOT and pray to the LOOT gods your mods are in order or else.

10.) Edit a half dozen or so INI files.

10.) Experience intense A.D.D. and obsessive compulsiveness as you stress over the likely potential you failed to back something crucial up as you tab back and forth across a rugged and endless landscape of browser tabs.

11.) Consider the possibility of having to merge mods together.

12.) Realize it's past 12am and you haven't even eaten dinner yet, you silly fk.

13.) Dinner can wait; you came this far. Launch!

14.) CMD opens, game opens (good thing you disabled the damned intro), CTD.

15.) Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........................................ Where did it all go wrong?

16.) Go to bed hungry and without Skyrim. Worst fears confirmed.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Sern

[Ewookie1]

I'm a little slow on the uptake. I joined Nexus back in November of 2013 to mod Skyrim. I started with NMM and managed to put something workable together. But then I discovered S.T.E.P. They introduced me to Mod Manager made by Tannin42. I put together a rather beautiful Skyrim with that, plus a few extras. Not as much as I wanted, but it was a really good start.

For me, MO wasn't as intimidating as I expected. Especially with the help and guidance provided by STEP and especially from GamerPoets well-presented and extremely informative videos.

 

When the new Deux Ex games came out and then some other good stealth games, I stop modding and playing Skyrim for a while. Then, I heard about Skyrim SE. When I looked into it, I found that people were frustrated because it wasn't that much better than what you could get with a well modded Skyrim. I also heard that there were a lot of problems trying to 'mod' the SE. A lot of the tools that are available for Skyrim aren't available for SE yet. But, that all got me interested in getting back into Skyrim again. Whether the SE, or old versions. Because of the wider variety of mods available and working for the original version, I decided to go with that... for now.

 

I've come to love MO and all its powerful, yet surprisingly easy to use tools. To me, it doesn't seem as complicated and difficult as everyone makes it sound. And, I'm 'not' an advanced modder. I don't or 'haven't' made any mods myself yet, and I have to follow instructions to get a good modded game going. But I have learned that I can experiment more easily with MO. And, some of my "experiments" have been successful, only because of MO. So, I'm looking forward to what Tannin can do with and for NMM.

 

Keeping the Data folder virtual while enabling xEdit, SKSE, the Creation Kit, and other useful tools to run 'through' it is just brilliant! I really hope they employ those features in the new NMM.

 

I'm actually really excited to see what becomes of this team up.