Why does nobody talk about mods that have no plugin in load order

[HadToRegister]

 

Now that's a post that I can appreciate, as well as the lesson, it isn't needed though, it was a mistake on my part but only due to how these rules are set in vortex cause it's really annoying to use and remember what rule you set when you got a large list of conflicts and lots of em had to have specific orders to work like I wanted.

 

 

I used mod organizer and NMM in the past and I also often edited mods to make em work together, I just stopped using them in favor of vortex cause I only heavily mod bethesda games and I was done with em for years, that doesn't mean I don't know anything about modding, it's quite the opposite, I can pretty much do everything( not well, but still everything), I just don't do it other than for what I strictly need, cause it doesn't pay, but I have my gripes with Vortex in particular and its why I posted in the first place.

 

If nobody here wants to accept vortex could be better, fine, but a crazy amount of people do not like and will never use vortex after they try it, for these specific reasons mainly and its irrelevant whether or not it can be done if it won't be done in vortex, right?

 

 

 

That's what the MANAGE RULES screen is for in both the MOD tab and the PLugins Tab.

So you can already see the rules that are set.

 

ALSO, if you need to be reminded about that many rules, then you are making far too many rules, because you are trying to force YOUR load order on Vortex Which uses LOOT

 

You only need to make RULES when Vortex tells you there's a conflict.

DO NOT ADD hundreds of Mods to the GROUPS, people think that Groups are just a naming feature, and they're not, they're a SORTING Feature

 

You really should only ever assign an ESP to a group when you need it to go to the bottom of the load order, usually assigning that ESP to the DYNAMIC PLUGINS group will be enough.

 

YOu should NOT NEED, or be making "Hundreds of rules", if you are, then you're doing it WRONG, very Wrong.

 

We had one person in here that made something like 300 sorting rules in order to get an ESP to the bottom of the load order, when just assigning the ESP to DYNAMIC PATCHES group, would've done the same thing without making Hundreds of rules.

 

 

You really should NOT have a large list of conflicts either, unless, as I said, you're assigning EVERYTHING to groups, causing everything to be in the wrong order and going against the LOOT sort order.

 

I have 386 mods installed for Skyrim SE, and I don't have hundreds of rules made.

 

One of your biggest problems is this line here:

 

"Lots of em have to have specific orders to work like I wanted"

 

That screams very loudly that you're not letting Vortex do its job, and you're trying to force Vortex to go against LOOT rules.

[dragonyter]

well, I think just a better interface for changing those rules would, or at least a real-time warning for cyclic rules( these are rly easy to fix, but the way you do it, you then can't see what else you break when you do it), simply cause its harder to see and deal with load orders this way, if not just a separate system to manually change orders to whatever you want and see everything all at once and where it's set.

The way it is now you have those little controls but what if you know that if u set that mod to load after it will also break another third mod, 4th,5th, 30th, 100th, to me it is very annoying but I got OCD, though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this anyway.

I can't give better suggestions than this, I specialize in graphic design and the rule thing might sit well with coders or feel easy but to me it looks like I wanna throw away my monitor and see how far it can fly, when I use it.

I'm not saying MO2/NMM, vortex is though, but if I knew I was gonna install more than 100 mods when I started I would've went with MO2 myself ( even though I only used the first one before and NMM, I would've tried it instead)

to me the suggestions and load before and after are nice for fast installs but other than that they don't help much.

[dragonyter]

 

 

Now that's a post that I can appreciate, as well as the lesson, it isn't needed though, it was a mistake on my part but only due to how these rules are set in vortex cause it's really annoying to use and remember what rule you set when you got a large list of conflicts and lots of em had to have specific orders to work like I wanted.

 

 

I used mod organizer and NMM in the past and I also often edited mods to make em work together, I just stopped using them in favor of vortex cause I only heavily mod bethesda games and I was done with em for years, that doesn't mean I don't know anything about modding, it's quite the opposite, I can pretty much do everything( not well, but still everything), I just don't do it other than for what I strictly need, cause it doesn't pay, but I have my gripes with Vortex in particular and its why I posted in the first place.

 

If nobody here wants to accept vortex could be better, fine, but a crazy amount of people do not like and will never use vortex after they try it, for these specific reasons mainly and its irrelevant whether or not it can be done if it won't be done in vortex, right?

 

 

 

That's what the MANAGE RULES screen is for in both the MOD tab and the PLugins Tab.

So you can already see the rules that are set.

 

ALSO, if you need to be reminded about that many rules, then you are making far too many rules, because you are trying to force YOUR load order on Vortex Which uses LOOT

 

You only need to make RULES when Vortex tells you there's a conflict.

DO NOT ADD hundreds of Mods to the GROUPS, people think that Groups are just a naming feature, and they're not, they're a SORTING Feature

 

You really should only ever assign an ESP to a group when you need it to go to the bottom of the load order, usually assigning that ESP to the DYNAMIC PLUGINS group will be enough.

 

YOu should NOT NEED, or be making "Hundreds of rules", if you are, then you're doing it WRONG, very Wrong.

 

We had one person in here that made something like 300 sorting rules in order to get an ESP to the bottom of the load order, when just assigning the ESP to DYNAMIC PATCHES group, would've done the same thing without making Hundreds of rules.

 

 

You really should NOT have a large list of conflicts either, unless, as I said, you're assigning EVERYTHING to groups, causing everything to be in the wrong order and going against the LOOT sort order.

 

I have 386 mods installed for Skyrim SE, and I don't have hundreds of rules made.

 

One of your biggest problems is this line here:

 

"Lots of em have to have specific orders to work like I wanted"

 

That screams very loudly that you're not letting Vortex do its job, and you're trying to force Vortex to go against LOOT rules.

 

oh was not talking about one particular mod, really I appreciate the help but I got it, now you don't need to bother with this.

I have many conflicts cause I have many mods and all of them deal with gameplay effects, textures, meshes and lighting and a lot of them do some of what others do or affect each other and shouldn't normally be used together, but I just do anyway and when this doesn't work I always modify the mods themselves or add what changes an ESP was going to make, to another single mod. If I was an active modder I would've released hundreds of compatibility patches by now, or made my own mods, but I don't upload stuff cause I can't afford to be tempted to waste time on this. Right now I'm on vacation and it's why I have spare time for this.

[showler]

It sounds like you are mixing together load ordering of ESPs and ESMs with priority ordering of the assets for the mods. Vortex has two different systems for these two very different functions. What you were describing at first needed changes to the asset priority. What you are describing now seems to be more load order oriented.

 

These days, with ESP-FE format being available there is very little reason for messing with LOOT ordering instead of making patches to fix issues.

[dragonyter]

What I do is install everything I want, see how they work and then if I run into big problems I can just make one mod do whatever 20 others do and then remove those, stuff like that. Or sometimes I have to mess with code, but I suck at coding.
Better than patching but its tedious and I can't post that anywhere cause I'd be using many other pples work.

I am also working on a fix for rudy's ENB and nevada skies, for that I'm going to have to look at rudy's own weather mod and nevada skies to determine howcto patch it so lights look the way they should.
And it looks I can't post anything cause the other dropped support, nice.

 

Not all pple bother making esp's either, when they will, stuff will be smoother.

[Zanderat]

I think you guys are forgetting how granular Vortex can go. It can go beyond "before/after" rules.

 

[Guest deleted34304850]

thanks. fyi - i didn't forget how granular it can go. the whole point of the thread was trying to tell the OP that the feature he wanted was already there.

[Zanderat]

thanks. fyi - i didn't forget how granular it can go. the whole point of the thread was trying to tell the OP that the feature he wanted was already there.

Not you, specifically. But some people never advise going beyond the before/after rules that show when you deploy.

[AugustaCalidia]

For ex. I got a b42 inertia mod in Fallout NV that requires compatibility skeleton but does not work in any way with b42 quickthrow and asurah animations, when it would be simple to set this up in other mod managers.

 

 

Please identify the "other mod managers" for which "it would be simple to set this up." Also, once identified, please show the steps that must be taken to resolve the conflicts alluded to.

 

Frankly, I'm skeptical about your claim. My skepticism is based on the following remark found on the description page for B42 Quickthrow:

 

 

Incompatible with any mod that changes 1st or 3rd person skeletons, at least until it's patched.

(https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/66686?tab=description)

 

Creating a patch for these skeletons is not a simple task. Do these "other mod managers" have built-in auto-patching capabilities that allow them to turn out a patch at the push of a button?

[HadToRegister]

I'd also like to append Augusta's post with the STICKY from the B42 Quickthrow Mod...with this little nugget





Also, I took at the files in "Compatibility Skeleton", "Asurah Animation Pack", "B42 Weapon Inertia" and "B42 Quickthrow"

"Compatibility Skeleton contains NIF files, as expected, those are MESH files

"B42 Weapon Inertia" contains an ESP and an INI file

"Asurah's Animation Pack" replaces the default KF files, in the default New Vegas Folders

"B42 Quickthrow" has its own KF files, in it's own folder and only overwrites the SKeleton.nif.

So Quick Throw and Compatibility Skeleton are going to clash, but there's a tutorial on how to merge the skeleton.nif from Compatibility Skeleton and Quick Throw that I posted from the STICKY above, that tells you how to merge the two Skeleton.Nifs, because no mod manager on Earth can merge Nif, DDS, XML, etc files, because those files get merged by the respective programs like NifSkope, PhotoShop etc.